Opening And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Do you know it's really a gift to come across this path and realize the power that lies within the work and ourselves, becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story.

Amanda Parker 0:22

Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast for personal healing and transformation takes center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations. Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit subscribe and never miss a new episode. Welcome to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells. I am here with a very special guest today, Marta Nikolai, Dr. Marta Nikolai, who is a teacher first and foremost, a teacher that I have met through my own path of studying shamanism, but she's also a lecturer at the university and wears many different hats throughout what it is that she brings into the world. And I am so honored to have you here today to talk about a topic that I know is very close to both of our hearts, but something that I know you've dedicated so much time and energy to. So we're going to be hearing from Marta all about altered states of consciousness. And I'm just so excited to have you here, Marta. Thank you for being here.

What The Shamanic State Is

Stepping Outside Time And Worlds

Drumming And Brainwaves Explained

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Amanda, thank you so, so much. It's an honor to be here on your podcast series, Don't Step on the Bluebells. And yes, I'm here to talk about the shamanic state of consciousness. Um, and I'm here because I love spirits and I love the opportunity to talk about them primarily. Okay, so thank you. So I I have been teaching shamanism and stepping into the role of a shamanic practitioner for a number of years now. And um I know that there is great power in shamanic work, and that power is accessible to all. But to access this power, we need the shamanic state of consciousness without which nothing happens. And when we go into the shamanic state of consciousness, we meet spiritual allies. They bring knowledge, they bring information, they bring support and healing. So probably you understand now why the shamanic state of consciousness is really, really uh paramount for the work to happen. In um shamanic books, any shamanic book would mention that shamans all over the world access or voluntarily enter a trance or alter state of consciousness or a shamani state of consciousness to perform specific functions for the community. In the book The Way of the Shaman, Michael Harner, um, who brought back shamanism into the Western world, um, explains how stepping out time is very important in order to reach out to spirits. Now, um stepping outside time, why? And I'm going to tell kind of you know, some maybe re kind of share some technical information, but this is necessary in order to understand how this beautiful body of work is. Stepping outside time is essential to move out of this reality, Amanda. The reality we are in, it's empirical, it's three-dimensional, and it's time-based. So if we step outside this time, we enter a different reality, a reality that is non-ordinary. And that's where we encounter spirits. That's where spirits are found. To make it more clear, we say that we we uh communicate with them, we go and meet them through the shaman's map, which is made of the upper world and the lower world, which are place of transcendence and where spirits who are described as all-knowing, compassionate, loving can be found. And all knowledge this is the beauty of shamanism, all knowledge comes from spirits. All we need to do is to bring that knowledge, that power, the information into ordinary reality. What is important and that is described and mentioned in uh um books about shamanism is that this is done by the shaman voluntarily at will, and equally voluntarily, we step out of the non-ordinary reality and we come back into this reality. It's very safe and is time-tested. Time tested. And the reason probably why, actually without probably the reason why it has lasted all this time thousands of years must be because it works. How it is done that we step outside time and we enter this different reality. Well, even if Michael Harner in his book says and shares that for him it was by taking the ayahuasca because as an anthropologist in training, he was observing indigenous cultures and he was asked to take part to the ceremony to understand what was really happening. By studying different shamanic cultures in North and South America and Siberia, Tibet and Mongolia, found out that the typical way to access the different reality and stepping out of time is sonic driving. Primarily, the instrument is the drum. It can be rattles as well, primarily is the drum. In the with the aboriginal in uh Australia, they use clapsticks that they beat together. It can also be done with sound in our head with the mouth harp. Let's say that primarily it is the drum. And the effect of the drum on brainwaves is actually recorded by EEG with the EEG. Ordinary reality consciousness. And by the way, what do we mean by consciousness? I've been using this term.

Amanda Parker 7:25

We can dive into that definitely.

Beginner Journeying And First Experiences

SPEAKER_02 7:28

So it's an awareness of internal and external stimuli. And in um our ordinary reality, that has been described um with brain waves and names. So we have the alpha brain wave, that's when we are relaxed, maybe an afternoon nap on the sofa, that's kind of brain waves. Then we have the beta brain waves, and that's activity. That is really daily brain activity, focus, and so on. Delta brain waves, sleep. That's the sleep state. Gamma, very focused, very lots of mind work, lots of brain work, lots of mind work. And then we come to the theta state. And the theta is found in uh uh, for instance, deep meditation, heightened creativity, daydreaming and the shamanic state of consciousness. That's the theta state. And the beauty of it is that when we are in that state, there is no ego. And that means that there are no worries, there is no interference from the mind, is really, if I had to describe it, I would say it's a blissful state. In the absence of the ego and time, we are in a blissful state. When we access the Theta state, that's the shamani journey, and means we are traveling to a different reality to meet spirits.

Amanda Parker 9:12

Let me ask you for a moment, because for someone who's listening who maybe doesn't have as much experience going into theta state or traveling, I know that you teach also foundational courses in this, so you have the wisdom here. But what does that actually look like for someone who's a total beginner and says, What does it mean to go into non-ordinary states or into theta state? And an example would be, because I'll just share my experience. When I first started training in shamanism, the idea of going into theta to the beat of a drum was so absolutely foreign to me because I only knew how to do that through like very certain circumstances of meditation and preparing my space. So having to learn such a different way of accessing, which now feels very natural, but I didn't even know what that really meant in the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Thank you, Amanda. That's really important to um to mention. So basically, to keep to kind of bring it down to a simple language, we have through hearing the drum beats at four to seven beats per second, so very monotonous drumming, nothing else, very monotonous drumming, your brain waves change. So your perceptions change as well. In the way of the shaman workshop, which is for beginners, we actually do um a pre-journey where uh they close their eyes and uh I just drum randomly and then more monotonously, and I ask them to pay attention to how the room changes or the perception of the room changes. You'd be surprised. Many of them say, I just saw animals. Oh, I just heard the fountain, oh, there were rumor ruins or other stuff. Okay, oh, I saw kind of you know an angelic figure, or um um I saw a historical figure, you know, they they say that and they relax because they understand that actually this overlapping of realities can happen any moment you watch a film, that a scene reminds you of something, beginning it begins to trigger a memory or a dream that you had recently. And then for a moment you have these two realities overlapping. If my drummers persists at a monotonous pit, then you you your consciousness moves into a different space, and I give you clear instructions on where to go, how to access an non-ordinary reality.

Amanda Parker 12:07

So you don't have to think for yourself in the moment, oh, where should I go? What's gonna happen? It's that you have that base layer of the drum, and then you already know what your mission and intention is for going in. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

You have to kind of a little bit abandon yourself to the experience, trusting that I hold the space, trusting that it's time-tested, trusting that there is a circle of people together, and that the instructions are clear, and other people before you have done it, like you, Amanda.

Safety, Control, And Dual Awareness

Amanda Parker 12:40

It reminds me a bit of a scene from I think it was a Pixar movie called Flow, if I'm not mistaken. And it's all about this character who was a saxophone player, and it's about what happens when he would get into that musical flow. But he decides one day he doesn't want to play the instrument anymore. And I can't remember the details of the story, but they take him through this whole thing of being able to enter this other realm, this other dimension where he can then see other people in their own flow state bubbles, painting or playing the piano or writing or playing with the dog, whatever it is. I'm going to write down the film. Thank you. Oh, it was such a beautiful. It just sounds like what you're describing because it was such a beautiful visual for that state that can cross over in our daily lives, that it doesn't have to be something special, but that we can also enter in special circumstances or in community or under the guide of a teacher.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Absolutely, absolutely. And once you enter it for the first time and you realize the peace, love, beauty, um, compassion that is in this, you know, absence of time of in an ordinary reality, where you meet spirits that come to you in animal or human form and you communicate with them, you really many students say, I've come home, I've finally come home. It's a homecoming. And it's a controlled state, because anytime you can come out of it, there's no one forcing you to stay. And the interesting feature of it is that you can be simultaneously aware of this reality. So if the door slamps, you can hear it, whilst at the same time being immersed in your journey. So you make a choice of carrying on with the journey of saying, I stop and see what it is, for instance. Yeah.

Amanda Parker 14:38

So you're never so far in or so far gone that you wouldn't be able to be aware of what's happening around you if you need to be.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

No. In indigenous cultures, there are shamans who travel for a very, very long time and they have assistance. But in our 15-minute journey or half an hour, it's very, very safe, Amanta.

unknown 14:59

Thank you.

Amanda Parker 15:00

Well, what if we one day just go on a week-long journey and see what happens? I can say that. Yes, I'm happy. Wow. Yeah, good. Thank you.

Weekly Practice And Spiritual Authority

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Thank you. So, yes. So we come back bringing knowledge, power, information, support. We receive it in this um different reality, and we come back. Uh, sometimes people say, I feel rejuvenated, I feel more empowered, and this is what shamanism is about, actually. It's about meeting your spiritual guides so that you are empowered, you you have your spiritual authority back with you. You have no one telling you what to believe in. It's not based on belief, it's based on experience.

Amanda Parker 15:54

When people are going into these states, are they would this be equivalent to, for example, if I have a morning ritual speaking to my guides or angels or different ancestors? So that's my practice personally. And I can ask them anything or I can talk to them about anything that's important for me. Would that be the same? People can bring any topic in, like healing or daily struggles, or you know, the baby is not sleeping. What do I do?

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Absolutely. Thank you, Amanda, for being so, you know, down to earth and practical because we, you know, I don't want anyone to believe that you you do a shamanic journey when you have big troubles, or your absolute life is upside down. No, you know, I advise to journey once a week, if possible, to weave it into the patterns of your life because uh it brings you support, because you can say, I had such a terrible week. Can I stay with you a little bit to your power animal? And you see the effect of it. It's not an imagination, it's something that you feel in yourselves is really bringing change. So that's why you regain your spiritual authority because you can receive all that through the shamani journey. Definitely, definitely, Amanda. Thank you. It's very important. I know some people who just go for a picnic with their power on.

unknown 17:20

Really?

Rituals, Tailored Guidance, And Integration

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yes. Have some time with them. Yeah, just spend some time with them. Transcending time in order to go and meet transcended beings who have gone well beyond anything to do with being human, the beauty and the complexity of it, we have an incredible, limitless knowledge of anyone of us. My impression actually, when I go and ask them a question about myself or more likely about say a client, is like being within a lab librarian, and you say, Amanda, I have a question on behalf of Amanda, you know, my client, and they go, Mmm, Amanda, yes. They pick out the book where there is Amanda's story in it, and they say, That's what she needs. That's what she know everything, they know so much. Um, I don't know after many years how else I could do my healing because all I need to do is to bring it back. And by saying all I need to do, I don't mean it's easy because it needs to have a form to it to deliver it um with power and support for the client. You know, some people come and they don't um have any form of spirituality. Some people come and they're on a spiritual path for years. So you know, there is a difference. There is a difference, yeah.

Amanda Parker 19:01

It's a difference in how they receive it or how you receive the information for them?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Never a difference in the way I receive the information is through my spirits, but in the way you have in the way you deliver it so that it becomes meaningful and applicable to life. And everything, even integration work, comes from spirit. They tell me, and oftentimes, and I think that is because of the way I work as well, um what I believe is important through rituals. Rituals are very important. I think settling our life have become like brushing our teeth most of the times in the morning, putting our pyjama on at night, but we can explain the power of uh rituals to change reality, to change, to bring change into our life for sure.

Amanda Parker 19:57

Yes. Any rituals you have? In mind anything that comes to mind when you say that those are specifically important?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

No, because they're tailor-made for each person. And sometimes they may really uh sound um unusual, like I remember once I this is that memory stick to me because it was really not just a movement or a series of movements or something to write. It was get a piece of cloth from an old dress and sew, sew on it, sew it. And every time she was sewing, she was to recite a mantra. And then you explain how we recite a mantra so that it retains power. So the rest it's my responsibility, whereas the actual healing is not my responsibility because it comes from spirits.

Amanda Parker 20:51

And it comes through you through me, yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

But without the alter state of consciousness, it wouldn't be possible.

Letting Spirit Work Through The Healer

Amanda Parker 20:59

I think that's a really powerful distinction, and I've seen it in different spiritual traditions, but it's really powerful to note that like, well, most healers, definitely I'd say all healers in their integrity, there the work is coming through them. It's not them doing the work, they're not, you know, the guru on the stage. They are asking for help from the spirit world to offer you what you need. And I think for me as a healer, who I'd say I'm still, you know, new in many ways. Some ways I'm much more experienced, some ways I'm still like, you know, walking the baby steps. But in the beginning, especially the first few years, my God, did I feel pressured to deliver, to like be able to get someone a result. And like I remember when I first learned Reiki, and I had physical pain in my whole body just trying to hold my hands in the right position. And it was, I was completely out of alignment with any connection. It was what I needed to go through. But I do remember carrying that sense of responsibility that I needed to figure this out. And I'd say it's only in the last year, maybe two, that I started to actually realize what happens when I let that go and how much easier everything flows.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

I really connect with what you say, Amanda. And for me at the beginning, it was taking my breath away. I remember, you know, I didn't want to do it. And now I know the healing happens because I know my preparation, and preparation is key to the work, probably for you as well. And I know how deeply I can go with my shamanic state of consciousness, but there's always holding that space throughout the whole session and the before the healing and after the healing, which is my responsibility, and so every time is a new time, it's new. So the little apprehension is probably always there because a client comes and you know it's me and the client and the past and the present of the client. Sometimes there is more like entities, so you have to pay attention to quite a lot. Quite a lot in one go. And somebody told me once that um having lived for a long time with Lakota in North America, um, a shaman there, if they don't feel the day is the right day to do a healing work, even if you're booked, they say not today, and they send you away. That gave me kind of permission, not that I cancel my clients, but to take time off if I need it. I don't want to feel the pressure that I have to be there all the time, if my body, mind, soul, family, uh you know, calls my attention.

Pacing, Readiness, And Boundaries In Healing

Amanda Parker 24:07

And it also sounds like permission to because I've I've given readings for people who are not really open, and it is like pulling teeth. It's so hard, and I'm learning to discern that better. That when I go into a space, that first of all, to recognize, okay, it's not just me, I'm not just suddenly today unable to do what I could do all week or all month or whatever. That there is something in that to say, hey, listen, I'm actually I'm not able to support you in the way that you need today, to really own that and honor that too. That that still makes me afraid, I'll be honest. But I'm recognizing the difference between someone who's really open to receive and it flows and it it's so energizing and empowering for us both. And then in the moment when, you know, they're not so open, and I don't just mean scared or nervous, I mean really like not something's blocked.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Something is blocked, and I can uh interpret it in um different ways. It can also be that on a um psychological level there are um complex layers there that needs to be seen by a specialist, and sometimes it's very difficult to convey that because they you know they kind of you know don't want to hear, but you know, uh gently and uh uh giving something because there's always something that comes with the session. There's always something that comes, yeah, and it's felt whether it lasts or not is a different matter, but it is felt, and then you can gently say, like you say, I I'm not, I'm sorry, I cannot support you um any further than what I've done. So I think that's so honest to say that, Amanda, rather than uh coming across as all powerful because spirits are all powerful, but sometimes in that relationship, something yes, is not working. Wonderful. Thank you. Starting a healing journey for anyone it's a big uh appointment in life. It's a turning point, big appointment. So I really always honor that. Whether they're starting the healing path, whether they are halfway through it, uh whether it comes at the end, the shamanization of a long journey, or at the beginning of a long journey. Um it's absolutely uh crucial to honour that because we all know that might take a while and we want to encourage people this wonderful journey that is not always pleasant, that it might take a long time, but that uh gives us a huge immense reward, a huge immense reward of stepping into our true self and maybe becoming the authors of our own life. Finally, we write our own story and uh appreciate life more fully. You know, feeling a part of it. I think it's yeah it's the journey really in this life for me. I don't know for you, but for me it has been the most important journey of my life, the healing one.

Slow Mastery Over Spiritual Trend-Hopping

Amanda Parker 27:42

Yeah, I can just feel the power in your words as you're speaking them. I already feel just so calmed listening to that. Because I think there's this perception in today's world, and especially me, I'm I'm online a lot. I work in a lot of like online business, online marketing. That's where I connect with a lot of people, and you have this false need to be always available, always online, always thinking, keeping up with the latest technology. And I do love tech, like I just genuinely love learning and playing and experimenting, but you feel like you're behind, like you're supposed to be somewhere, you should have already gotten somewhere. And I think the same is happening with spirituality as well, that it's become more popular again, which is great because people are looking for meaning. I mean, that's the journey that I'm on, but you feel like, okay, now I need to go, you know, do a kundalini awakening and then do my seven mantras and then go to this ayahuasca retreat, and then and it's like frenetic, and you you think that this is spiritual awakening, but it's actually just a to-do list. A marathon, yes. Yeah, it is, it is, and that's I don't want to be so judgmental because we always we reach what we need when we need it, and it will come to us in that time, but I still feel there's not as many teachers like yourself and some other guests that I've had on the podcast who really have been doing this for decades that really ground what that experience is, because someone who's two years out of an awakening is still in the thick of the mud trying to find their way to the other side.

Community, In-Person Work, And Instruments

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I remember a student in a recent advanced workshop who came to me at the end and said, Do you know about Marta? You are convinced, and that's why you're convincing. And I laughed, yes. Well, convinced means that I know the power of spirits, I know the power of the work, I know it, I just know it. Okay, so and I love spirits so much, I'm passionate, and that's why I want to give it. I want to give that knowledge to people, and I want to encourage them to do something that nowadays, Amanda, very much like you said, I want to do this and that and that, but I bring them down to something very simple and basic. Do the journey, stick to it for a while, don't jump onto anything else for a while, master it, make it yours, then you can learn something else. At least people, my feeling is that because of the world, uh the way the world is at you know, where we live in, especially a hyper-visual world. We live in a society that's hyper-visual, um, but they want a kind of you know, uh it's it's it's uh it's it's the quantity, not the quality. It's the quantity jumping from one workshop to the other. And also what I value about the work I do, and I I go very rarely doing online work, to be honest. It's primarily in person, because I value community. I value being physically together, supporting each other, singing together, um, doing healing work for each other, sharing our experience of a shamanic journey, seeing the diversity of it. We need community in this fragmented world, we need community. So that that I feel is another kind of task that I feel comes together with my shamanic work. Let's stay together, let's let's sometimes do community healing, let's feel the power of uh singing and rattling together as you have experienced because you've been, you've done it, and probably you do it in your own work as well.

Amanda Parker 32:01

Oh, I've got some, I have some new rattles I'm working with. And I really love them, the energy of the I mean, I love the tools, so I definitely always have my eyes and energy open. But I'd say that I'm starting to really feel the difference of each instrument in a way that I didn't used to. It used to just be, okay, cool, I've got my drum. And now I'm like, if I'm traveling, I find like I miss my drum. I just like feel like I wish I had it with me. And these I have a beautiful rattle that I got very recently from a Brazilian community. So there was uh a Brazilian medicine man came to town. Andrea Arare had hosted an event.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yes, I saw it.

Amanda Parker 32:49

And so yeah, so we could make our own rattles, which was beautiful, but he also brought some that the local community had made, and it has this black jaguar painted on it, and it's so magnificent. So I don't even know why I'm sharing that now. I forget my thread, but I just suddenly felt my rattle calling my attention.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Because we did mention, you know, being together drumming and rattling, and you went beautifully into the importance of getting to know your instruments, not just banging the drum, but getting to hear the voice of the drum. And that's why we become jealous of these instruments, because we share so much. You know, we say so much the drum, the drum speaks to us, and we it's ours, you know. That's why.

Self Practice Vs Seeking A Practitioner

Amanda Parker 33:34

Back off. This is my drum. So I have a question because we talked about this. Um, you and I have spoken about this briefly in other conversations, but this practice, so shamanism in general, but also this practice of going into these altered states. I know it's very important to know people can do that for themselves, for their own healing, but that they can also still seek support from others. And I feel like there's something important I'd love to hear from you about because I know even on my own journey, I thought I had to get it all myself. And then I didn't want to ask for help because I had learned how to do this and I thought I'm supposed to know. So maybe there's something that you can share about that, you know, that personal healing journey, but also reaching out and getting that support that you need as you're moving through.

A Potent Healing: Depossession Signs

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Thank you, Amanda. In fact, when I say getting your own healing, I don't only refer to energy power work done in the sense of uh bringing back a soul part by yourself, for instance, or taking some energy out that is not necessarily helpful and maybe doesn't belong to you. I actually mean spending time in an ordinary reality, spending time by your spiritual guys and merging with them, merging with them. So I mean going there to do a work that is supportive. When we come to I feel something is not right in my life, um, and you name a pattern or you name weaknesses that you suddenly feel, or something around, I feel I'm not myself any longer, and so on and so forth, that is when you need to go and see a shamanic killer. It is a known fact as well, and I'm just sharing as it comes, okay. It is also well known fact that when we go with questions like, I don't know which path to go, or what is the next step in terms of uh my job, my work life, it's very difficult to get answers because we know ourselves very well, and we unless we really, really hollowed out and we um kind of we empty ourselves of the knowledge that we have of ourselves, we tend to influence the journey. Whereas a practitioner doesn't know you, it doesn't know you at all, so it makes it really easy for them to retrieve information. So family shamanism is known to have poor quality, but that's trust for those who are really, really able to empty themselves of whatever information they have on a partner, on a family member, uh, they can do a journey and ask a question. I also feel that it is so important to be able to say to somebody else, I need help, rather than feeling I can do it all by myself. So you enter into communication with another person and um uh in that relationship for a brief time, for a brief moment in time, you entrust somebody else with your soul, and that is equally important community work. It's important to delegate somebody else whom you trust. Obviously, you don't just go to anyone, you have to feel, yes, I can try this practitioner. Um, you entrust somebody else with your soul, but that I think also to be able to say I really I really value that those words. I need help. Yes. For for that reason, I really recommend seeing a shamani practitioner. So I recommend two things. One is learning the shamani journey, so you have your support system, and the other one is to go for a healing when you really feel you need one, um, because there is so much more that comes when we are together with somebody else, who has the experience of the work, who has the um healing words that can uh uh that we need to hear, and the right integration work that maybe most of the times we do together with the practitioner because we haven't done it before. So you know we feel we don't feel comfortable in doing it, and it's beautiful because it's like it the togetherness of it is beautiful. I love it, really like it to accompany somebody to go to a tree asking how can I integrate my healing into my life?

Amanda Parker 38:43

Would you have any stories of maybe a healing that either you experienced or that you facilitated? Is there any story that maybe comes to mind that you'd be able to share with us just to show some of the power of what's really possible here?

SPEAKER_02 39:01

So I don't keep notes of my shamanic healing because they're not for me. And I throw them away, to be honest. The client makes notes at the end of the session, and I forget, but I just want to share something because every time it happens, it's really, really, really potent. Um, I do deposition work and um I have my way of given to me by spirits to see if there is anyone there, if there is there is kind of a lost soul that found a temporary home leaning on my client. And when that happens, which I normally don't say beforehand, the reaction of the client is immediate. Whilst the healing normally may take time to to To become um more part of the reality and the life of a client in that instance of a deposition, the client changes instantly, and they say they voice it, oh gosh, I feel so much lighter, and they smile. And if you give them a glass of water, they really enjoy that glass of water as if it had a new flavor, or their cheeks become rosy. It's really visible, and that is something that dwells, that stays on my mind. Even if I don't remember the individual clients, I remember the reactions.

Amanda Parker 40:40

They wouldn't frame it that way when they come in, right? They wouldn't know, oh my god, I have an entity. They would just say I don't feel like myself, or I feel tired, or exactly that, Amanda.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Or they say, I'm doing things, you know, that um, you know, I really make me tired. I don't want to do, but I kind of have to do, or I don't want to see people anymore. They they kind of express, you know, the presence of or the likes and dislikes that they're they're not normally there, but most of all they feel not themselves, which is you can say I don't feel myself today, and it doesn't mean you haven't something attached to you, but the way I know it is really particular, I would say, because normally the client lies down for the session and I see somebody else on them, on their face, and that is when I say, Would you mind sitting up again, please? And I do my work, which is very gentle, very compassionate. So you do you have two souls at the same time in the possession work? No. No.

Amanda Parker 41:50

I am sure that someone listening will be like, Oh my god, maybe I have an attachment. So if someone is listening and they're not living in London, so they can't call you, what could they do? What would you recommend that they do to find out how to feel better within themselves?

Ask For Help And Find Trusted Support

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Uh I would have to do a diagnostic journey because it doesn't mean, you know, when you feel strange or not yourself, that there is a little attachment there. Um so I will have to do a diagnostic journey and then maybe refer them to somebody else.

Amanda Parker 42:25

So they if they live in a different country or something, they could find a shamanic practitioner themselves where they're living.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yes. Yeah. We're big. We're a big organization. We are all over Europe almost. So I have colleagues, so definitely I will refer them to somebody.

Amanda Parker 42:42

Yeah, I think it's also just important what you're sharing that, you know, whatever the thing is that feels off within you, just you can ask for help. You can just ask for help. And you don't have to diagnose yourself, you don't have to know what's wrong. You don't know how have to know what's going on, but it's always okay to reach out and get the support. And maybe it's someone as brilliant as Marta and someone who who comes from the foundation for shamanic studies, and maybe someone else crosses your path as well that you feel like a loving presence. You feel supported in their presence, and it's okay to ask for that support. It just feels also important to emphasize that we're entering, you know, winter and the days are short and it's dark. And yeah, I think there's a lot of big things happening in the world that that people really need that support and maybe aren't reaching out in the way that they could.

Foundation For Shamanic Studies Overview

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Yes, yes, Amanda. Yes, I'm here, we are here. Yes, and thank you for mentioning the Foundation for Shamani Studies because we hadn't yet. Yes, that's my I'll put it in the show notes too. Yeah, that's my home. I've been teaching for a long time. It is a beautiful community of us, and we meet kind of regularly, and um we do co- we teach co-shamanism, which was um put together by the anthropologist Michael Herner, who was um a US anthropologist, and the Foundation for Shaman Studies is in Los Angeles, and in Europe, the headquarters is in Vienna, so we're like sister organization, if you want, doing same same work. We cover all aspects of uh shamanism um in a very um uh structured way because Michael Horner, being academic, he did structure his workshops very, very well, and we're very kind of um faithful to that structure and to the oral culture. So, apart from the two books written by Michael Harner, we have never put anything in writing because it's passed on already, so we still act in that tradition. Core shamanism, can I say, means that um uh it is the fundamentals of shamanism that Michael Harner found in his many many years of research into indigenous cultures, so it is something that is found cross-culturally. Once you peel off the cultural coating, that makes anything that is done shamanically more particular, so the use of blue color or red color, certain chanting instead of others, the attires that they wear. So all that can be found individually, and there is beauty in it, in finding our own way to practice this core shamanism.

Amanda Parker 45:46

And I would just love to hear um how did you get to the practice of shamanism or teaching shamanism? So I know that you grew up in Italy, now you're living in the big sprawling city of London, and I have had the privilege of experiencing your work and teaching, but there must have been a Marta before this happened.

Marta’s Path From Accounting To Shamanism

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Indeed. Yes. Yes. So can I name two key events in my life which have led me onto this path? Curiously, I mean, sometimes things happen and you think that's bad, but actually it's not. I mean, uh, I had a car accident in my middle twenties, and in at that time I was an accountant. You're hey here, I was an accountant, and not very happy with my life. So I had this car accident and I was reading for a little while, and then I thought, I really need a vacation before I go back to work. And I went to the beautiful southern part of Tuscany, ended up in a BMB, not an Airbnb, a BMB, and there was the manager there who was also practicing Kundalini meditation, uh, following Osha's teachings. And um, he had a beautiful venue, a room where he practiced that, and I joined in. But I joined in and a new world opened up completely. Went back to my work, and my satisfaction with life deepened, my meditation grew, and I really, if I had to describe it, because I had described it to myself, or that's how the you know the image that came was, I felt like an egg, my egg, my life, cracking open under the pressure of a new life wanting to come out. So I left. I came today to London seeking the language. This is what I believed in. Actually, again, a new world opened up. And after a few years, I was in a little restaurant in North London. I met a Mexican man who started describing himself and what he was doing. He was in academic engineering, he was also doing um iridology. Would you like a reading? And so on. That was a friendly conversation, but that evening I began to be aware of a presence on my left-hand side, like a puppy of some sort. And I thought, what is going on? There's something felt immediate connection with that Mexican man. I don't even know why, but I thought, let's search about Mexico. So I found Castaneda and in reading the teachings of Don Juan, I felt I felt there was something to do with my puppy, um, who was growing into a full animal, which I don't mention because he's my power animal now, and started buying other books, and at the back of uh one of these um accounts of uh um, you know, stepping into shamanism, personal account of it, there was the foundation for shamanic studies mentioned. So I went into the way of the shaman, and uh my beautiful by then grown animal became my power animal. And I really felt like some students say, Finally, I'm at home because I was seeking for it. I went to India, I spent a few years going back to India. I had a Didi, which is a holy woman, who hosted me in an ashram in the Maharashtra region at the center of India for a long time, and I was in a Gangan retreat space for some time, and I felt meditation very much, but something was missing. So when I did the World of Shaman, I went all the way, and many times I also repeated my workshops because there's so much, so much in each one. Then I started assisting, and the ball was rolling, was rolling, but I was an academic as well. So when I came to London, I did all my higher education and uh university, PhD and everything. I became an academic and I was I taught up to two years ago for 15 years. I loved it, but at one point, again, like the egg, the new life in, and I really wanted to dedicate myself to shamanism, which I am doing now. Little bit of academic work, a lot of shamanism. What I like. And there's a lot, it's a lot that I would like to deepen in terms of shamanic knowledge.

Student Encounters And Turning Points

Amanda Parker 50:47

So that's about the time our paths crossed. It was about two years ago when I did my first shamanic course with you, and I have often had this experience. I don't know that this is um specifically that, but let's just see. I've often had this experience of either entering people's lives or yeah, coming into contact with people just on that precipice of like pretty massive transformation. So it's very interesting. I'm still learning about myself, what my role in all of this is because I'm like, I meet people and their lives kind of you know explode colorfully shortly after, but I feel very privileged to have found you. And I'm just gonna tell a funny story because when I first found your workshops, I had been looking, I had just this voice inside that told me that I was a shaman and decided to follow it. And I had no idea what it meant and I didn't know where to start. So I had been given the name Sandra Ingerman. I started listening to some of her podcasts. I probably bought a book or two, and then I started looking for London. Okay, how can I learn this in London where I'm living? And I couldn't find anything. So I think I searched a few times, but it just didn't catch my attention. And then at some point I really felt ready. It might have, I don't know, it was it was a while later. And then all of a sudden, this workshop came up in North London, very nearby. I was skeptical. I thought this was Google's doing, and I didn't know if it was real. So when I first signed up for the Wedding of the Shaman, I gave a fake address and phone number to sign up to.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Really pleasure. You coming into my life workshops and the time we met in Hampstead for a conversation, for a chat. And so you know, Amanda, how beautiful, but at the same time, daunting is to step into your own power.

Amanda Parker 53:14

So I have taken so much of your time, which I'm very grateful for. And I would just like to ask if there's anything else that you would like to share that you feel would be important for someone maybe who's just starting on this journey themselves to know. You mean the healing journey? Healing or a shamanic pathway, whichever feels resonant for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Shamanic journey. Definitely. Um persevere and realize the power that lies within the work and ourselves to the point that you approaching this work, you at some point will know that spirits are within everything that happens in this beautiful heart of ours. And so I would like to say adjust your first steps and you can go a long way with shamanism. Really long way. I almost don't want to go into any specific anything specific but invaluable. Don't you know there is anything that I would ever change about my life now. Yeah, please step just just make that first step into learning cushionism. And then you will see by yourself whoever you are, you will see by yourself. Yeah. Patho beauty. Yeah, thank you, Amanda.

Final Guidance: Persevere And Begin

Amanda Parker 55:10

Thank you so much, Marta. So everyone who's listening who is now desperate to get in a course, you're gonna have all of Marta's contact information, the foundation for shamanic studies, you'll be able to find that in the show notes. If you're ever in London and happen to coincide when Marta's teaching, although you also teach in Italy, I believe, as well, right? I helped the foundation. So you'll be able to get in touch and be able to learn from Marta or just follow the pathway that feels best for you. But Marta, I am over the moon that we could have this conversation. I'm so, so grateful to you. Me too, Amanda. For so many reasons. But thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Thank you, Amanda, for having me very much.

Amanda Parker 56:00

And to everyone who's tuning in, thanks for joining us. And I will see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells. If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen. And don't forget to hit subscribe and follow along so you never miss a new episode.